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Jose50 · #1 18 Sep 17, 10:56

Just got some info on my great grand dad HEIC Bengal presidency soldier.
He was part of the Bengal European regiment Perhaps artillery but was also attached to either the 43rd or 45th N.I. as a senior noncom. The 1909 obituary was a bit fuzzy in places.
Seems he had three medals to his name, Sutlej Campaign (1st Anglo-Sikh war) with Sobraon clasp, Punjab Campaign (2nd Anglo-Sikh war) with Chillianwalla clasp, and the Indian Mutiny medal.
After the mutiny he was on the unattached lists until listed with HM artillery from where he was pensioned.
Seems he was stationed for a time at the HQ at DumDum (regional HQ?)
Any comments would be more than welcome.
Thanks

MarkV · #2 18 Sep 17, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose50

Just got some info on my great grand dad HEIC Bengal presidency soldier.
He was part of the Bengal European regiment Perhaps artillery but was also attached to either the 43rd or 45th N.I. as a senior noncom. The 1909 obituary was a bit fuzzy in places.
Seems he had three medals to his name, Sutlej Campaign (1st Anglo-Sikh war) with Sobraon clasp, Punjab Campaign (2nd Anglo-Sikh war) with Chillianwalla clasp, and the Indian Mutiny medal.
After the mutiny he was on the unattached lists until listed with HM artillery from where he was pensioned.
Seems he was stationed for a time at the HQ at DumDum (regional HQ?)
Any comments would be more than welcome.
Thanks

Dumdum was the Indian Army's main munitions manufacturing centre - the infamous Dum dum bullet takes its name from there. They were not made for very long but the name if the factory appeared on many ammo boxes of conventional rounds and was used to support spurious claims in the South African War and WW1 that Britain was sustaining using illegal ammunition

There were a series of reorganisations after the Mutiny and the Presidency Armies gradually faded away and ceased to exist as entities and the Indian army replaced them. The non European Indian army units were not allowed artillery other than mountain guns and artillery support was provided by the Royal Artillery. The mountain batteries were officered by RA secondees but the men and NCOs were Indian. They established a formidable reputation. So I'm puzzled by your reference to HM Artillery. My best guess is as an old soldier he was given a post of responsibility in the Dum dum armaments complex.

Thinking about it Dum dum was HM Arsenal Dum dum - are you sure that it's artillery?

Jose50 · #3 18 Sep 17, 13:31

Well, the obituary gives his rank at pensioning off as some sort of Sergeant-Major. Family legend has him as an artillery sergeant during the mutiny. There's some other paperwork that my cousin had done with a guy from FIBIS which lists his medals and where he was posted (that's where I got the bit about the HQ at DumDum).

Thanks for the interest MarkV

MarkV · #4 18 Sep 17, 15:02

Dum Dum (note it is two words) was a Royal Artillery Arsenal and contained a manufacturing facility and a laboratory. The Arsenal was divided into six divisions each under the supervision of a sergeant as was the laboratory. There was also an infantry school located at Dum Dum. The Medical service HQ was also at Dum Dum. Dum Dum is close to Calcutta which at that time was the capital of British India so it is logical that there would be clusters of central service providers in the area.

Poor Old Spike · #5 18 Sep 17, 16:20

I thought the aim in war was to inflict the maximum damage on the enemy, so if dum-dums could do that better than ordinary bullets, why were they banned? It sounds like one of the earliest examples of silly political-correctness..

MarkV · #6 18 Sep 17, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike

I thought the aim in war was to inflict the maximum damage on the enemy, so if dum-dums could do that better than ordinary bullets, why were they banned? It sounds like one of the earliest examples of silly political-correctness..

No war is to impose ones political solution- with the minimum effort (force) necessary). Only the SS and their ilk would adopt your definition.

Jose50 · #7 07 Nov 17, 13:19

Now it seems that great grand dad was could have been at Ferozepore arsenal at the beginning of the Mutiny. That he may at that time been with 45th Bengal NI and was the Quartermaster Sergeant when his sepoys went awry. He may have been HEIC European Artillery during the Sutlej and then the Punjab campaigns. Without his number he's hard to track.

Poor Old Spike · #8 07 Nov 17, 22:45

Poor Old Spike quote- I thought the aim in war was to inflict the maximum damage on the enemy, so if dum-dums could do that better than ordinary bullets, why were they banned? It sounds like one of the earliest examples of silly political-correctness
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Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkV

No war is to impose ones political solution- with the minimum effort (force) necessary). Only the SS and their ilk would adopt your definition.

As a - ahem- champion computer wargamer, if I went soft on my opponents my trophy cabinet would be empty....

I like Gen Douglas MacArthurs view- "It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it"