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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Warfare Through the Ages > The Medieval Era

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The Medieval Era Discussions on Knights and Crusaders, and all things medieval!

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  #91  
Old 21 Jan 18, 16:28
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The Highlanders would raid the Lowlands. The Lowlanders figured it was not worth chasing the Highlanders, but instead looked South and the English Borderlands had lots of stuff! So they would raid there! My Grandmother was an Erwin, one of the subclans of the Irwins.

Wallace was a Lowlander. Read the book, "The Steel Bonnets".

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  #92  
Old 22 Jan 18, 04:10
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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
The Highlanders would raid the Lowlands. The Lowlanders figured it was not worth chasing the Highlanders, but instead looked South and the English Borderlands had lots of stuff! So they would raid there! My Grandmother was an Erwin, one of the subclans of the Irwins.

Wallace was a Lowlander. Read the book, "The Steel Bonnets".

Pruitt
There really isn't such a thing as 'A Lowlander.' Certainly it is not a helpful term to describe 'Someone-who-is not-a-Highlander, which is a meaningless category in itself given that the area of Scotland that is 'Not The Highlands' - the most important portion- embraces a number of geographical and cultural zones.

The Borders area running diagonally southwest between Berwick and Carlisle is a long way from the areas that were pray to cateran raiding in the north and the actions of the. The area was certainly not lowland, being composed of what geographers poetically named the Southern Uplands, and, while not especially rugged, is nonetheless wild and forbidding. Being only fertile in the lower valleys, which were chronically prey to cross border forays, the poverty and insecurity gave rise to the criminal, anarchist tendencies of those marginalised inhabitants, lik many a border zone elsewhere.

Indeed the term 'Highlander' itself is a fairly unhelpful generailisation since the population was divided by geography into a number of mutually hostile groups of brigands who preyed on each other as much as they did on the more settled areas adjacent- one thing they did have in common with the Borderers, together with resistance to central government.

William Wallace was a knight of Cumbrian descent, as indicated by his surname. The contact zone between early English settlers and the Cumbrian 'Welsh' was in the area south of the Forth and east of the Clyde but by the 12th century 'Wallace' was becoming common name south of the central belt, as it is today. That would indeed make him "Not-a-Highlander.'
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  #93  
Old 22 Jan 18, 08:26
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Generally the Scottish Highlands are regarded as North of the Highland Fault which runs from Arran and Helensburgh to to Stonehaven. Peoples in the highlands in the 17 th and 18th Century were mainly Catholic and Gaelic speaking, people South of the fault were more predominantly Protestant and spoke Lowlands Scots (which shares much of its vocabulary and grammar with English). You can live up a mountain south of the fault and till be a lowlander and at sea level north of it and still be a highlander However in Wallace's time I doubt that highlander ands lowlander were distinctions being made - it's a relatively modern classification.
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  #94  
Old 25 Jan 18, 11:08
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Indeed the term 'Highlander' itself is a fairly unhelpful generailisation since the population was divided by geography into a number of mutually hostile groups of brigands who preyed on each other as much as they did on the more settled areas adjacent- one thing they did have in common with the Borderers, together with resistance to central government.
It is a self-referential term; membership of one of the major clans or not. There is obviously a grey area, but it is not a concept defined strictly by geography.

Those outside of the clans - and generally further south - might consider themselves different and variably antagonistic to the former. But it is all a vague differential.

This is worth reading, if people are really interested: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Invention-S.../dp/0300158297
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Old 25 Jan 18, 17:09
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I'm am sorry to say, Trevor Roper's essay is tired old stuff.
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  #96  
Old 25 Jan 18, 17:23
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I'm am sorry to say, Trevor Roper's essay is tired old stuff.
Why?
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  #97  
Old 28 Jan 18, 05:31
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I don't have the essay in front of me or time to find and read it again, but for starters, I agree with this clear-sighted gentleman:

https://bshistorian.wordpress.com/20...-of-tradition/
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  #98  
Old 28 Jan 18, 16:11
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As I have read only this [Times] article, and the extracts and reviews of the “new” book online


Might be worth his reading the book first? Usually seen as important for any kind of critique
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  #99  
Old 28 Jan 18, 20:32
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He makes it clear that in his discussion he is concentrating on the earlier material reproduced in the posthumously published version; rather than offer opinion on what he hasn't seen.
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Old 28 Jan 18, 20:51
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Pssst, ...

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He makes it clear that in his discussion he is concentrating on the earlier material reproduced in the posthumously published version; rather than offer opinion on what he hasn't seen.
... you'll find that earlier material from 1992 i.e. "The Invention of Tradition", Edited by Eric Hobsbawm, & Terence Ranger, here for your perusal and download:

http://psi424.cankaya.edu.tr/uploads..._Tradition.pdf

Chapter 2 is titled "The Invention of Tradition: The Highland Tradition of Scotland", by Hugh Trevor-Roper. This PDF is actually clearer than my own copy.
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