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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > East Asia and the Pacific

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East Asia and the Pacific China - Japan - Australia and challenges throughout East Asia.

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  #1  
Old 30 Apr 14, 12:08
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Does China have a nationalities problem?

I just rewatched "Hero", with Jet Li. It's about the first Qin emperor and a plot to kill him to stop the unification of the various kingdoms into what is now China.

The message in the movie is "Our Land", meaning the unification is important to bring peace to the area. I suspect there is a message for modern China there too, but that would only be accurate if there was a need to send such a message. Am I even close to being correct?
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  #2  
Old 30 Apr 14, 12:11
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Possibly - It may be in reference to Taiwan? (I also very recently watched Hero - I've been watching quite a bit of Chinese cinema lately, last night it was Chow Yun Fat's 'The Assassins' which I recommend)
I know some of the Uyghurs always seem to be wanting independence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_people
Generally though, as with many of these Chinese epics, it may simply be appealing to the Han Chinese's patriotism rather than addressing a particular fault line of the state's ethnic groups?
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Old 30 Apr 14, 12:18
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I remember doing a paper on Japanese colonialism and the issue of Taiwan was part of that. Seems the Chinese used to exile people to there, after explaining to them that the native Taiwanese were cannibals.
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Old 30 Apr 14, 13:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
I just rewatched "Hero", with Jet Li. It's about the first Qin emperor and a plot to kill him to stop the unification of the various kingdoms into what is now China.

The message in the movie is "Our Land", meaning the unification is important to bring peace to the area. I suspect there is a message for modern China there too, but that would only be accurate if there was a need to send such a message. Am I even close to being correct?
Our Land is a bad english translation of Tiānxi (天下). It roughly means All Under Heaven.

In terms of ethnicity, the Han Chinese make up 92 percent of the population of PRC, 94% of the population of Hong Kong, 95% of the population of Macau, and 98% of the population of Taiwan. Its a very homogenous society.

Differences in Taiwan and PRC are purely political.

Last edited by IDonT4; 30 Apr 14 at 13:50..
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Old 30 Apr 14, 14:17
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Thanks, that sorts out nicely.
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Old 02 May 14, 11:00
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Wrong; there are considerable cultural differences- like Americans from the west coast vs. Texas, for instance.

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Originally Posted by IDonT4 View Post
Its a very homogenous society.

Differences in Taiwan and PRC are purely political.
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Old 02 May 14, 12:06
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I seem to remember that Taiwan in 1400AD had a Malay population that was cleaned out\swamped by conquering Han Chinese.

Is the same happening to Xianxxxx (in the West) and Tibet?
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Old 02 May 14, 16:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scupio View Post
I seem to remember that Taiwan in 1400AD had a Malay population that was cleaned out\swamped by conquering Han Chinese.
Ming fell in 1644. The influx of Han people to Taiwan were the Fujians that fled to Taiwan after their failed uprising (Southern Ming vs Qing) circa 1662. Who they kicked out was the Dutch. Taiwan was not under unified Chinese control until the Qing conquered it.

Quote:
Is the same happening to Xianxxxx (in the West) and Tibet?
It's a commie thing just like Crimea was. Placing friendly ethnics into troublesome provinces is a common strategy. Tibet's problem is not against the Han people, it is against the CCP.
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  #9  
Old 04 May 14, 11:19
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A couple of points here. Beijing fell in 1644. It took another 40 years for the Qing to establish control over all of China. As Ming loyalist ("Southern Ming") holdouts were pushed out of China, to include Taiwan, they moved into South East Asia, effecting the cultures and history there. Three groups of such refugees is what eventually made Cambodia's Mekong Delta region Vietnamese.

As for the Aborigines being Malay, perhaps Malayo-Polynesian is a better term, and as the Aboriginal museum in Taipei shows, not all were Malay. One of the ten groups was Negrito, which like Malay-Polynesians can also be found in the Philippines. And they were all alive and well in the early 20th Century. One group massacred the students of a Japanese school in 1937.

As Yu Yong-He himself described his trip to Formosa in 1697: "I have traveled to distant shores, and to faraway lands where men do not venture. I have been to the heights of the mountains and the depths of the rivers. I have escaped death from the island's most cunning dangers. I have lived the lives of savages..."

While Taiwan was then on the maps of China, it is quite obvious that Qing 'control' did not extend past the pale of fortified Chinese settlements hugging the coasts for several centuries. As MSGT has pointed out, it was the arrival of mainland Chinese refugees in 1949 that changed Taiwan's demographics. Most of those refugees cme from provinces that had produced the majority of Taiwan's Chinese pioneers.
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Old 04 May 14, 11:23
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On the movie "Heroes". I found it to be a not so subtle propaganda piece. OK, so the Great Leader and the Party have made mistakes. Heroes were killed in the process. Yet the Emperor did what he did for the greater good of China. All should be forgiven in that spirit. Believe in the Red Emperor. Trust the Party.
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Old 04 May 14, 15:29
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While Taiwan was then on the maps of China, it is quite obvious that Qing 'control' did not extend past the pale of fortified Chinese settlements hugging the coasts for several centuries. As MSGT has pointed out, it was the arrival of mainland Chinese refugees in 1949 that changed Taiwan's demographics. Most of those refugees cme from provinces that had produced the majority of Taiwan's Chinese pioneers.[/QUOTE]

My Dear Lirelou:

Not quite. The first wave of Han Chinese arrived in Taiwan was during the Qing Empire. At one time Taiwan was administered under the governor of Fujian Province, Liu Ming-Chuwan. The Taiwanese langueage is merely a slightly different tongue than Fujianese. The aboriginees language have disappeared just like most primative tribal languages around the world.

If I recall correctly, the aboriginees did eventually welcome Hans into Fomosa. The Han Chinese has always been great farmers. Hans showed the aboriginees how to farm and harvest, and how to use the abundance of fertile soil and water in Formosa. Hans also broght Chinese Medicine, which was probably considered the best at the time. Hans cured the starvation problem and diseases that were dreaded by the aboriginees who were merely hunters and gatherers.

The aboriginees used to have human sacrefice just like the Mayans (sorry if I got this one wrong). This stopped supposely in Mid 18th Century. One of the well respected by the aboriginees (Ali Mountain Tribe) Qing Administrator (Wu Feng), who tried to get them stop the human sacrefice ceremonies. The Aboriginees refused. He then offer where they can find a person to sacrefice. He offered himself dressed in a robe with hood on. When the aboriginees found it was Wu Feng, they supposely stopped the practice.

Also there was an incident, the aboriginees attakced and killed a group of people (just over a hundred I think) from Ryukus who were stranded due to Typhoon. The Japanese used this as an excuse getting the military to attack Formosa (according to Chinese of course). This happened during when Qing Empire was still powerful. Qing Empire sent supposely 30K Imperial troops to Formosa and Fujian Province prepared for war with Japan. When Japanese learned Qing Imperial Troops were stationed in Formosa, they scrapped the attack.

I mentioned there were temples, school named, and statues of both Ming and Qing Leaders that are worshiped and remembered. So that's why I think Aboriginees not only did not resent the Hans, they in fact welcomed them. That's why Taiwanese did not object to ROC take over Taiwan initially. They do consider themselves Chinese.

One thing I like to add, is that even during Japanese Occupation; Japanese did not destroy any of these historical sites and temples that worshiped the Ming and Qing Leaders. Credit to Japanese, who sees these as important historical artifacts.
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Old 04 May 14, 15:41
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On the movie "Heroes". I found it to be a not so subtle propaganda piece. OK, so the Great Leader and the Party have made mistakes. Heroes were killed in the process. Yet the Emperor did what he did for the greater good of China. All should be forgiven in that spirit. Believe in the Red Emperor. Trust the Party.
China is under dictatorship of the party, so it would not be Imperial. How is this different than some of our other Allies. In Saudis are still Imperial system, and does not even allow women to drive. One thing I will tell you that Communists have done well I think is gender gap.
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Old 04 May 14, 20:42
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China is under dictatorship of the party, so it would not be Imperial
Dear Elder Brother: Why would merely being ruled by a dictatorship of the Party render it not imperial? What made China an empire was its rule of various peoples, in addition to the Han. Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, which most empires are, but its subjects are Arabs. Vietnam was ruled by a King until the Nguyen dynasty, during which time they ruled various mountain tribes, the Cham (Panduranga) and the Khmer in both the Mekong Delta and upper Cambodia.

On the Japanese campaign in Taiwan. IIRC, it actually took place but did not get the results expected. Again, according to the Museum, which is within walking distance of the National Palace Museum, headhunting was practiced until into the 20th Century. I don't recall any mention of cannibalism. Oh, and you do make a good point that their watercraft was quite similar to that of Northwestern American Indians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Expedition_of_1874
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