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  #61  
Old 22 Apr 12, 10:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broderickwells View Post
Guilty as charged, Your Honour. I throw myself on the mercy of the court.
I'd give you '6 months hard' if I was a magistrate (thats if you need 6 to get hard!) lcm1
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  #62  
Old 22 Apr 12, 11:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon_G View Post
It's funny when you cite David Irving people all say his work is undependable, yet when people want to dispute you they turn around and quote him as if he was an angel.
Who does that, please?
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  #63  
Old 22 Apr 12, 11:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon_G View Post


Moreover Hitler was dealt two ultimatums by the western Allies in July and August of 1944 to either abandon nukes and sue for peace within 6 weeks or face nuclear bombing of Dresden.
Source ???

EDIT: Ooops, I see someone has already requested this.
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  #64  
Old 22 Apr 12, 13:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigersqn View Post
Source ???

EDIT: Ooops, I see someone has already requested this.
I wouldn't worry about that...I think everyone would like to see the source of that claim
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  #65  
Old 22 Apr 12, 15:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcoat View Post
I wouldn't worry about that...I think everyone would like to see the source of that claim
While it is totally silly, it would be interesting to know the source.
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  #66  
Old 22 Apr 12, 21:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon_G View Post
Nazi Germany had developed the bomb by mid 1944, but had not weaponised it and more importantly lacked the delivery systems.
Interesting.

According to an earlier quote by you they had these things so small they weighed around 5kg.

Quote:
This bomb is revolutionary in its results, and will completely upset all ordinary precepts of warfare hitherto established. I am sending you, in one group, all those reports on what is called the atom-splitting bomb. It is a fact that in June of 1943, the German Army tried out an utterly new type of weapon against the Russians at a location 150 kilometers southeast of Kursk. Although it was the entire 19th Infantry Regiment of the Russians which was thus attacked, only a few bombs (each round up to 5 kilograms) sufficed to utterly wipe them out to the last man.

So the Germans didn't have something that could deliver a 5kg bomb even though your quote has them "delivering" them to the "Russians".

So in June 1943 they had multiple bombs to test, that appear to have been very successful, yet were unable to make more, or bigger ones (which is probably actually easier).

And you claim that a year later (and even after that) they couldn't deliver these wonder weapons to London or Moscow?

The D-Day landing would seem to have been the perfect target for use these weapons. Why weren't they used?

Even if it was bery heavy, a suicide mission by a large aricraft, patrol boat, ship, submarine, tank. truck etc would have had to have had some possibility of working against the beachhead.

Or perhaps Hitler wanted to keep it for the real invasion, and then just forgot about it.

Yeah right!

Sure would have made a cool suicide weapon in his bunker for when those Ruskies came charging down the stairs.
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  #67  
Old 23 Apr 12, 04:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Who does that, please?
Funny thing about David Irving, he seems to be a total Nazi apologist right up until the Nazis are threatening the UK, at which point his Britishness reasserts itself and he becomes a (British partisan) historian again. I've read his work, The Mare's Nest, which deals with the German V-weapons and Allied counters. Apart from minimal mention of slave labour it is quite good, especially as a number of probably important documents would have been in Soviet hands at the time and therefore classed as "unobtainium".
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  #68  
Old 23 Apr 12, 04:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcm1 View Post
I'd give you '6 months hard' if I was a magistrate (thats if you need 6 to get hard!) lcm1
Not 6 months staying hard?
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  #69  
Old 23 Apr 12, 05:44
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Quote:
Luigi Romersa who was on the ground sent specifically by Mussolini to witness an atomic test blast in October 1944
.

By Oct 44 Mussolini was long dead. Hard to believe that the Germans trusted a news man, sent by a long dead person to watch any such test.
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  #70  
Old 23 Apr 12, 05:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
.

By Oct 44 Mussolini was long dead. Hard to believe that the Germans trusted a news man, sent by a long dead person to watch any such test.
Hate to break it to you John, but Benny died 28 April 1945
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  #71  
Old 23 Apr 12, 06:41
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Come on guys!! You all know that the Nazis lost the war in spite of their super genius!!


In all seriousness though all one has to do is file a FOIA with the Dept. of Justice to release the files on this. Now if they refuse to release the info on national security grounds it would be reason for a raised eyebrow.
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  #72  
Old 26 Apr 12, 01:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon_G View Post
Neither Irving nor most other commentators consider the activities of Diebner's Forschungsstelle E, Dallenbach's Forschungsstelle D
Simon, it's one of the more famous books on the subject, yet you clearly haven't read it. How can you possibly then be creating a website on the topic?

Diebner is mentioned constantly, and in fact his 1957 history is one of the sources.

Let's hear from the enfant terrible David Irving himself on the claims of a Nazi bomb:

"LET US marvel once again at the ability of your average broadsheet journalist to write a story like this without once consulting the author who alone interviewed all the Nazi atomic scientists and nuclear physicists (and of course Reich armaments minister Albert Speer, without whom such a project would have been impossible) in writing his book The Virus House (The German Atomic Bomb, Simon & Schuster, New York, 1967): namely, myself.


By the time Prof Mark Walker came along, these scientists were dead, and he relied heavily on my 1967 book and documents while at the same time lashing out at me as a -- guess what -- "Holocaust denier". The biography of Werner Heisenberg by Thomas Powers is more discerning.

That Walker can be a professor at a New York college and spout these views is disturbing (unless he is doing so for a fee). That a reputable firm like Deutsche Verlags-Anstalt published the book -- they are after all Germany's quasi-official history publishers -- is equally astonishing. My book was published in Germany, and Der Spiegel serialised it for several weeks. What were these new folks all smoking, one wonders?

NOW to the claims which this new author makes: they are rubbish, from the Rudolf-Hess- wasn't-really- Rudolf Hess school of history.

Here is a brief synopsis of the real German atomic research story. There were two rival teams working towards getting an atomic pile critical -- one of theoretical scientists and academics under Nobel prize winner Werner Heisenberg, the other a more empirical team under army scientist Dr Kurt Diebner.

Both teams had wrongly been informed by mathematician Professor Bothe that graphite could not be used as a moderator in an atomic pile (now called a nuclear reactor); this left only "heavy water" (deuterium oxide) as a choice, and this substance dribbled forth from the much-attacked heavy water plant in Norway at such a painfully slow rate that they still did not have enough when the war ended.

Heisenberg's men nevertheless began building a rudimentary pile in a cave at Haigerloch in southern Germany (see my picture below), with which they experimented until they were captured by the ALSOS mission headed by US colonel Boris Pash and his MI6 colleague Michael Perrin.

Diebner's army team did actually attempt to create a fusion reaction by imploding conventional explosives on deuterium (heavy water), in one rudimentary experiment.

The German war economy lacked all the basic resources to build an atomic fission bomb, once Speer had assigned top priority to the V2 rocket project. It had no means whatever to build a "dirty" bomb.

The suggestion that the Germans lacked "pure-grade uranium" is absurd, unless this refers to the enriched U235, bomb making ("weapons-grade") material; the Germans had captured the Belgian uranium-ore stockpiles in 1940, and Degussa had no problems refining it. The ALSOS teams found hundreds of cubes of solid uranium, as photographs in my book show.

Nor is the 1941 "plutonium" patent news: Carl-Friedrich von Weizsäcker, scientist brother of the later German president Richard von W., was a member of the Heisenberg team, and in the Oak Ridge, Tennessee archives of the US Atomic Energy Authority I found the original proposal made by him to the Heereswaffenamt (German Army Ordnance Dept) on July 1, 1940, for the production of plutonium from a nuclear reactor -- once they had got it critical. They never did."


http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/docs/atombomb/Ruegen.html

Last edited by clackers; 26 Apr 12 at 03:32..
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  #73  
Old 28 Apr 12, 02:46
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I think he's done a runner.
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  #74  
Old 28 Apr 12, 03:18
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Nah - he shuffled off to reload his blunderbuss. He'll be back as soon as he thinks his powder is dry.
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  #75  
Old 28 Apr 12, 08:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BF69 View Post
I think he's done a runner.

Around the same time we asked for sources.

Ironic no ?
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