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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus

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Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus Post-Soviet Russia and some neglected smaller neighbors.

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  #1  
Old 31 Dec 11, 15:19
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Another Fox lie

http://www.foxnews.com/search-result...hts-record.htm



Put Stalin and 60 millions of imagined deaths in a report about Russia.
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  #2  
Old 31 Dec 11, 15:23
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What Stalin did? That was , what 50 years or so ago. Gitmo etc is today. Apples and oranges
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  #3  
Old 31 Dec 11, 15:27
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What Stalin did? That was , what 50 years or so ago. Gitmo etc is today. Apples and oranges
Exactly. Why put Stalin in ? Maybe to show the Americans that Russians cannot blame USA for the non-respect of human rights ?
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  #4  
Old 31 Dec 11, 15:27
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They slipped it in. Interesting.

Quote:
Russia's Foreign Ministry is criticizing the US for its human rights record. It attacks President Obama for quote "legalizing indefinite an extra judicial custody and the return of court marshals." It also laments the ongoing operation of what it calls the notorious prison at Guantanamo Bay. History students may recall former Russian leader Joseph Stalin is blamed for up to sixty million deaths. The State Department says it may examine the Russian reports.
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  #5  
Old 01 Jan 12, 04:00
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Russia is suffering from sour grapes because of the criticism concerning the russian elections. Guantanamo is not the sort of thing that really shocks Putin.
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Old 01 Jan 12, 04:51
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I've read reports in the Polish press that Islamic militants surrounded and taken prisoner by Russian Federal forces in the Caucasus were loaded on trucks, driven away and they disappeared without a trace. We can only imagine what happened to them, but their fate must have been grim. If those reports are true, then it explains why the Russians don't have their own Gitmo for Islamic militants.
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  #7  
Old 01 Jan 12, 06:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callback View Post
Russia is suffering from sour grapes because of the criticism concerning the russian elections.
When isn´t Russia having sour grapes?


Quote:
Guantanamo is not the sort of thing that really shocks Putin.
Really, why not?
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  #8  
Old 01 Jan 12, 06:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
I've read reports in the Polish press that Islamic militants surrounded and taken prisoner by Russian Federal forces in the Caucasus were loaded on trucks, driven away and they disappeared without a trace. We can only imagine what happened to them, but their fate must have been grim. If those reports are true, then it explains why the Russians don't have their own Gitmo for Islamic militants.
Do you have a link or a reference of some sort? It don´t have to be exact, just which paper or pappers and time period.
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  #9  
Old 01 Jan 12, 08:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
Really, why not?
Putin is a very hard man.
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  #10  
Old 01 Jan 12, 10:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
I've read reports in the Polish press that Islamic militants surrounded and taken prisoner by Russian Federal forces in the Caucasus were loaded on trucks, driven away and they disappeared without a trace. We can only imagine what happened to them, but their fate must have been grim. If those reports are true, then it explains why the Russians don't have their own Gitmo for Islamic militants.
Different things may happen in Russia, however the way the Polish press tackles them is beyond the bounds of sanity. If only Russian-Polish relations were relevant on these boards, there would be thousands similar threads here.
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Old 01 Jan 12, 10:36
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Why this thread is called FOX LIES ?

The number of 60,000,000 of Stalin's victims
ascends to the Solzhenitsyn and was widely
discussed by the Soviet/Russian media
between 1987 - 2004.

FOX did not invent this number,
they simply were using data from the Russian sources.
If there numbers are not accurate, it is not their fault.

Moreover, there still is disagreement between
pro- Stalin and Anti -Stalin Russian scholars
about the number of Stalin's victims.
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Old 01 Jan 12, 10:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callback View Post
Russia is suffering from sour grapes because of the criticism concerning the russian elections.
Look, if some smug, self-righteous prick wasted no word to bash you, your policies, your way of life, your history every day of his life, if he daily reminded you that your dad killed neighbour's cow and you stole your neighbour's apples when you were five and for this reason adds "you thief" in every address to you, maybe you would try to find out whether his squeaky clean image to truly allows him to indulge in such unrestrained a**hollery.

Surprise, surprise, the guy's pants appear to be dirty too and his protesters get pepper sprayed and clubbed, unlike in Russia. So while his criticism might be valid in many cases, he'd better change his tone in order not to look like a total clown.
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Old 01 Jan 12, 10:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS116 View Post
Why this thread is called FOX LIES ?

The number of 60,000,000 of Stalin's victims
ascends to the Solzhenitsyn and was widely
discussed by the Soviet/Russian media
between 1987 - 2004.
Solzhenitsyn's numbers are ridiculous BS, not only having no basis in archival research, but not even stacking up with the population censuses. As a very huge stretch, this number can be used for all people who were oppressed by the regime, including those reprimanded at work for going to church, etc.

But this is not the real issue here. Fox clearly presents Stalin as a Russian leader (which he wasn't either historically nor even ethnically) and maks it look like that nothing happened in 1991 and the current Russian government shares Stalin's continued lineage: "History students may recall former Russian leader Joseph Stalin is blamed for up to sixty million deaths." This is a very cheap and stupid trick which only Fox audience would gobble up without a question. As I've said, there are people coming from the states and thinking the current Russian flag is red with hammer and sickle.

Quote:
FOX was using data from the Russian sources.
If there numbers are not accurate, it is not their fault.
What are the "Russian sources"? Should I take my information about the US exclusively from Code Pink and the Occupy guys?

Quote:
Moreover, there still is disagreement between
pro- Stalin and Anti -Stalin Russian scholars
about the number of Stalin's victims.
Just like about everything else everywhere in the world. This is still no excuse to use a Cold War guesstimate.
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Old 01 Jan 12, 11:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
Solzhenitsyn's numbers are ridiculous BS, not only having no basis in archival research, but not even stacking up with the population censuses. As a very huge stretch, this number can be used for all people who were oppressed by the regime, including those reprimanded at work for going to church, etc.
So it is his lie, not the Fox Lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
What are the "Russian sources"? Should I take my information about the US exclusively from Code Pink and the Occupy guys?
You don't have to do it.
There are plenty of Russian authors, politologysts etc,
who are using information from the most marginal,
leftists anti- American sources as a reliable American
analysis/information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
Just like about everything else everywhere in the world. This is still no excuse to use a Cold War guesstimate.
Again, it is not a lie.
It is Clod War rhetoric.
See the difference.
By the way, do you think this style is much better ?

Также Путин напомнил всем зрителям о том, что американский сенатор Маккейн служил во Вьетнаме, где, попав в плен, просидел долгое время в яме для узников: «Видимо, Маккейну до сих пор мало крови, ему необходимы кровавые сцены, такие, какие весь мир видел при убийстве Каддафи, я думаю, что у него попросту поехала крыша, когда он сидел во вьетнамской яме».
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Old 01 Jan 12, 11:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
Look, if some smug, self-righteous prick wasted no word to bash you, your policies, your way of life, your history every day of his life, if he daily reminded you that your dad killed neighbour's cow and you stole your neighbour's apples when you were five and for this reason adds "you thief" in every address to you, maybe you would try to find out whether his squeaky clean image to truly allows him to indulge in such unrestrained a**hollery.
I think communism was a horrible thing whose first victim was Russia and the Russian people.

Russia's neighbors would have disliked Russia anyway (because Russia was an empire in expansion and so on), but communism severely aggravated that dislike. Because Russia controlled by communists didn't simply rearrange territories and borders like a 19th century imperial power, it also took a very active and brutal role in gutting the societies of its neighbors along class-war lines.

Ruling for so many decades, the communists became an integral part of Russia's history, and attacking them seems to be an attack on Russia itself, however that history has a completely different (and not nice) meaning for others.

So if someone bashes the communists it doesn't necessarily mean he bashes Russia.
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