HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Weapons of War > Air Power

Notices and Announcements

Air Power A place to discuss the implements of War in the Air!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06 Jun 14, 22:50
GCoyote's Avatar
GCoyote GCoyote is offline
ACG Forums - canis administrationem
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Gary C
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Posts: 19,219
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Two Harrier Jets Have Crashed in a Month

This should spark some debate.

Itís Not Surprising Two Harrier Jets Have Crashed in a Month
BY ALEX DAVIES 06.06.14 | 6:03 PM

Quote:
The first Harrier, the AV-8A, had a horrific safety record; more than half of the planes crashed. The second generation AV-8B, produced by Boeing, entered service in 1985. Itís much safer, but still compares poorly to other jets. According to an 2002 LA Times report, the AV-8B Harrier suffered 11.44 accidents per 100,000 flight hours, compared to just 3 for the F/A-18 Hornet. Between 1971 and 2002, 45 Marine pilots were killed in 143 noncombat accidents in Harriers.


More - http://www.wired.com/2014/06/why-harrier-jets-crash/
__________________
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

Questions about our site? See the FAQ.
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 07 Jun 14, 01:39
Wooden Wonder's Avatar
Wooden Wonder Wooden Wonder is offline
Brigadier General
UK
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2,325
Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100] Wooden Wonder has demonstrated strength of character [100]
The case of being a first generation aircraft asked to be a fighter, a fighter bomber, and a 'helicopter'. The design asks much of the engines, the pilots and the maintenance crews. Let us hope that modifications to the engines and electronics in the likes of the F35 makes that a less challenging aircraft to fly.

Modern/future VTOLs I suspect will not be required to do the 'Ali Shuffle' or bow to admiring crowds, as the Harrier often did. It was viewed as an amazing aircraft by the RAF and the Fleet Air Arm, but one that could have its fragile moments and one that should ideally be flown by only the pick of pilots.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07 Jun 14, 06:51
Selous's Avatar
Selous Selous is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
England
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Mercia
Posts: 8,823
Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900]
Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900]
It'sa 60 year old design and most of the fleets (about 50 - 40 years old?) can only be refurbished so much- also, Friction - crashes do happen, every day, things go wrong in ways no one can foresee or counter. It's part of operating large organisations and lots of machinery.
__________________
------
'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

If you have questions about the forum please check the FAQ/Rules
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07 Jun 14, 13:04
nikolas93TS's Avatar
nikolas93TS nikolas93TS is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
EU
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Nikola Sandic
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Trieste
Posts: 2,610
nikolas93TS is simply cracking [600]
nikolas93TS is simply cracking [600] nikolas93TS is simply cracking [600] nikolas93TS is simply cracking [600] nikolas93TS is simply cracking [600] nikolas93TS is simply cracking [600] nikolas93TS is simply cracking [600] nikolas93TS is simply cracking [600] nikolas93TS is simply cracking [600] nikolas93TS is simply cracking [600] nikolas93TS is simply cracking [600] nikolas93TS is simply cracking [600] nikolas93TS is simply cracking [600]
It is a marvelous piece of engineering nevertheless.
__________________
It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

Косово је Србија!
Never go to war with a country whose national holiday celebrates a defeat in 1389.

Armored Brigade

Armored Brigade Facebook page
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07 Jun 14, 13:26
Rutger's Avatar
Rutger Rutger is offline
Second Lieutenant
Netherlands
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Rutger
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hengelo
Posts: 432
Rutger is on the path to success [1-99] Rutger is on the path to success [1-99] Rutger is on the path to success [1-99] Rutger is on the path to success [1-99] Rutger is on the path to success [1-99] Rutger is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikolas93TS View Post
It is a marvelous piece of engineering nevertheless.
I second that. Hats off to McDonnell-Douglas too for making the AV-8B.

Wiki says that much of the accidents is "related to the percentage of time spent in critical take-off and landing phases", which sounds like a good reason to me. It also claims that the Italian Navy will replace the AV-8B with the F-35B. I'd say, give your Harriers a massive electronics upgrade.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07 Jun 14, 14:34
Arnold J Rimmer's Avatar
Arnold J Rimmer Arnold J Rimmer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Red Dwarf
Posts: 24,069
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
I've heard that it is the most complex plane of its type to fly.

Plus, its being flown by Marines.
__________________
Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07 Jun 14, 15:28
Carl Schwamberg's Avatar
Carl Schwamberg Carl Schwamberg is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 10,459
Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800]
Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800] Carl Schwamberg gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
This should spark some debate.
I dont know why. The record and its many causes are well known, oft published, oft discussed, and largely from decades ago. The number of these aircraft still in operation is declining rapidly, replacement programs have been underway for two decades, and would have largely been complete if the replacements had been built as intended.

Its a old and well recycled story ZZZZzzzzz......
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08 Jun 14, 09:39
PitchRate's Avatar
PitchRate PitchRate is offline
Colonel
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Bob
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Mid-west
Posts: 1,568
PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200]
The US has a substantial amount of airframes and spare parts, much to the chagrin on many in the RAF and RN. Purchased at "fire sale" prices also.
Quote:
WASHINGTON and LONDON - Britain has agreed to sell all of its 74 decommissioned Harrier jump jets, along with engines and spare parts, to the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps - a move expected to help the Marines operate Harriers into the mid-2020s and provide extra planes to replace aging two-seat F-18D Hornet strike fighters.
Quote:
Britain retired its joint force of Royal Air Force and Royal Navy Harrier aircraft late last year in one of the most controversial moves of the defense reductions, which also cut the aircraft carriers that operated the jets, other warships, maritime patrol planes and personnel.
Quote:
Heinrich negotiated the $50 million purchase of all Harrier spare parts, while Rear Adm. Donald Gaddis, the U.S. Navy's program executive officer for tactical aircraft, is overseeing discussions to buy the Harrier aircraft and their Rolls-Royce engines, Heinrich said.
http://www.defensenews.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09 Jun 14, 20:29
boomer400's Avatar
boomer400 boomer400 is offline
Colonel
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,838
boomer400 is walking in the light [200] boomer400 is walking in the light [200] boomer400 is walking in the light [200] boomer400 is walking in the light [200] boomer400 is walking in the light [200] boomer400 is walking in the light [200] boomer400 is walking in the light [200] boomer400 is walking in the light [200] boomer400 is walking in the light [200] boomer400 is walking in the light [200] boomer400 is walking in the light [200]
I've always thought that the AV-8 series could've really used a big boost in the early to mid 90s with a simple TO and landing phase bit of electronics kit to simplify pilot load. For instance, one thing that could've been done is to make a "simple" semi-automated laser/optical range/altitude finding VTOL system to allow the pilot to get on and off the pad.....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 17:55.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.